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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.09.06 00:19:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/09/2008 00:26:32
Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/09/2008 00:25:54
Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/09/2008 00:24:44
Well its not suprising a ill organised bunch failed, as contrary to popular belief it takes a degree of skill to succsfully ganke.
As someone has said, the torp raven is the most effective suicide ganker and has been for some time.
It is however worrying that 5 bs and 15 bc couldnt pop a single occator, though I suspect you didnt module scan and fire best damage types etc.
Not firing at the same time does have an effect, as if (in order)
BS 1 fires
10 seconds pass
CONCORD SPAWN 1
Conrcord kill BS1
BS 2 fires
CONCORD SPAWN 1 INSTANTLY TAKE OUT BS2
10 seconds pass
CONCORD SPAWN 2
Its vital you begin shooting at the same time.
IE there is no warp in time dealy, so BS2 is a one hit wonder. And after the first two have fired early - you now have 2 concord spawns on the gate ready to do over BS3 and BS4 with no warp in time.
But yeah, that said CONCORD are a bunch of shits for doing what they did. In typical CONCORD fasihion they have cracked a nut with a gian nerfhammer, and CONCORD have more planned with the removal of insurance.
I would expect to easily pop the target with 5 torp battleships and a pro suicide squad.
And no - disco ships are not as good as torp ravens.
Nice experiment though was interesting read.
SKUNK
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.09.06 00:34:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/09/2008 00:39:40
For Future gankers the optimal fit is
RAVEN:
6x Arbalest Siege
2x Medium neutralizers
5x BCU II
1x 100mn Afterburner
1x Warp Disruptor 1
1x X5 Stasis Web
1x Sensor Booster
2x Target Painter
30 of each damage tpe torp
Character will need the 1% power grid implant and engineering 4
CCP instituted a ARE YOU REALLY SURE pop up (which used to be able to be turned off but they made mandatory to covertly hinder gankers) window, where you have a yes or no option.
The YES should be used to synchronize firing, coms is a must.
I did gain some satisfaction out of taking the CCP pop up nerf and shoving it up the targets ass as it acutaly assists synchronized firing.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.09.06 21:50:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Rajere
disinformation mode /on
yes, you are 99% safe in 0.5 and above now. Yes the torp raven is the optimal suicide gank ship. Yes, that fit posted for it is what you should use. With no insurance payout, you will be 100% safe in 0.5 and above because the cost per ship/fittings and # of ravens needed make it far too prohibitive to be profitable.
disinformation mode /off
What the hell does that mean
If you think the fit posted is non optimal for a suicide ganker I should like to hear your opinions on what is.
SKUNK
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.09.07 00:55:00 -
[4]
Originally by: SyGanomo
Edited by: SyGanomo on 07/09/2008 00:51:42
Originally by: Le Skunk
If you think the fit posted is non optimal for a suicide ganker I should like to hear your opinions on what is.
SKUNK
the ARBALEST launchers for one amigo, although they are pretty f'n cheap atm.
Loot prices have really shit teh bed. YOu can kill a nice fit BS and make
like 5-15M profit, shit aint right.
Sorry you dont know what your talking about.
Arbalest sieges retail for around 300k ish (I dont quite understand why you pick on them, instead of the T2 bcus in the bottom slots which cost 1 mill a pop but there we go)
The difference from using arbalests and standards is the increased possibility you will get a 2nd and thrid volley off. So you spend an extra 1.5 mill on your raven and possibly do 33% exta damage.
So anyone else want to criticize the setup? Step right up.
SKUNK
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.09.07 15:34:00 -
[5]
Originally by: SyGanomo
dumbass can you read? I recognized that the best named launchers are now priced cheap and *****ed about it from the perspective of looting wrecks. Congrats you have the uber suicide gank raven fit? why so insecure.
In addition it looks like the point now is that even if you pimp your raven, you will NOT be getting a 2nd and certainly not a 3rd volley off, but I await the results of YOUR testing.
I asked what was wrong with my raven fit? You replied
"THE ARBALESTS FOR ONE"
Which i then proved wrong.
Originally by: Ishamel 1
this is true, but then t1 launchers and 4 t1 bcus also gets of 2 volleys inside 10 sces, so why bother? less margin for error sure but still.
Basicaly its all about weighing up the costs with the chance of doing 33 - 50% more damage.
To Cover Your Points
1) In regards to the t2 bcus, they do 10 % missile damage bonus as opposed to 7. So they are needed as a matter of course purely on this reason alone.
They also give a 10.5% increase in ROF (as opposed to a 7.5%)
2) Costs for the 6 arbys over 6 t1s is 1.5 million isk.
Considering that some of the targets you would have been shooting at may be worth 3 bill, the cost is utterly negligible. And combined with the t2bcus, can get you 33% to 50% more damage (assuming 3rd salvo or 2nd salvo sneaking out). All for 1.5 million isk.
Well my own testing showed a 9 second response time in a 0.7. I am unaware what it is in a 0.5, but i would suspect it is higher. Assuming it is 12-13 seconds, then your third volley is RIGHT ON THE LINE in terms of whether you get it off or not.
When doing a gang gank, factors combine, lag, slow pilots, target ranges, etc to mean that every seconds counts, and practice shows the 1.5 million to be well worth it.
Finaly, a point people ignore
 ROF does not equal MISSILE HITTING TARGET.
1)The missile has to travel to the target to achieve damage.
2)The tareget is usualy not at zero km
3)Concord shoot down missiles mid ait when they arrive.
So getting the missiles in the air faster is not only about getting the second or third volley in. If at range, a slow second launch can see your sieges getting shot down right as they were about to hit the target - a second quicker launch would have seen them hit.
SKUNK
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.09.08 19:41:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 08/09/2008 19:44:03
Originally by: Uziel Zero
Edited by: Uziel Zero on 08/09/2008 08:59:20This negates any argument of RoF factoring in.
ROF does not equal MISSILE HITTING TARGET.
1)The missile has to travel to the target to achieve damage.
2)The tareget is usualy not at zero km
3)Concord shoot down missiles mid ait when they arrive.
So getting the missiles in the air faster is not only about getting the second or third volley in. If at range, a slow second launch can see your sieges getting shot down right as they were about to hit the target - a second quicker launch would have seen them hit.
** Assuming 10 seconds till concord turn up. 4 Seconds Flight Time. 6.5 ROF
0 sec: First Volley fire
4 Sec: First Volley Hit
6.5 Sec : Second Volley Fire
10 Sec: Concord Spawn
10.1 Sec: Concord pop the missiles, jams and kill you
TOTAL = 1 HIT
** Assuming 10 seconds till concord turn up. 4 Seconds Flight Time. 6 ROF
0 sec: First Volley fire
4 Sec: First Volley Hit
6 Sec : Second Volley Fire
10 Sec: Second Volley Hit
10 Sec: Concord Spawn
10.1 Sec: Concord jams and kill you
2 VOLLEYS HIT
(figures chosen for demonstration purposes not accurate)
SKUNK
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.09.08 19:47:00 -
[7]
BTW also of note was the possibility the smartbomber was actually popping the torps and missiles mid flight
SKUNK
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.09.08 19:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Uziel Zero
The screenshot seems to suggest that each CONCORD spawn only deals with the aggressor that spawned it.
Experience pre nerf was 100% the opposite. What was known in the business as a "dirty gate" IE one with a concord spawn already on it, would put off a lot of gankers. If you were determined to use it, you had to factor in more firepower.
SKUNK
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